Mom's Talk: Sexy Billboards Near School—'Zero Feet Away' From My 9-Year-Old
A mom discusses the difficulty in explaining to her son a suggestive billboard near his elementary school that showed two men kissing. But now the billboard is gone.
(EDITOR'S NOTE: Within hundreds of feet of Carpenter Community Charter, Rio Vista and Valley View Elementary schools are billboards that include an image of two seemingly nude guys in a near kiss; advertising for pot shops; and a suggestive picture of a woman in a thong, bent over, doing a poll dance. Here's a story from Kelly Cole, co-president of Valley View, who did something about it. Activists in the Cahuenga Pass area and Greater Toluca Lake Neighborhood Council were also involved.)
This past Mom's Talk issue is now on Gawker , CafeMom, The Huffington Post, Atlantic Wire, Momfia, FOX, AdWeek and the Manhunt site. Please weigh in with what you think!
Also read:
My Billboard Blog on Patch – Part 2
Manhunt Responds to Studio City Patch's Mom's Talk Column
I never thought this would be me: A liberal feminist complaining about a sex-positive, homosexual billboard. Like that would ever happen.
Well, it has and here it is. Because I’m also a single mom complaining about her child’s premature loss of innocence, caused by driving past this billboard every day on the way to elementary school. Twice a day, since the image is on both sides of the billboard on Cahuenga, the only way to get to and from school for many Valley View Elementary families.
You try explaining the “Zero feet away MANHUNT MOBILE” phone application to your 9-year-old son. A 9-year-old who loves Army guys, and so noticed the dog tags right away.
It’s not the blatant porn-iness of the over-lit image, or that it is of two men. It would be equally annoying if it were hetero. It’s the fact that I am forced to figure out a way to frame to my fourth-grader the fact that some people like to find causal sex partners fast using their mobile phones.
I know some would tell me to use the opportunity for an illuminating conversation. But I don’t need Manhunt Mobile to set my Important Talks Agenda. Our family really could have gone awhile longer without that particular conversation—and should’ve been able to do so.
I know I could have lied to my son, which I don’t typically condone, but honestly I couldn’t come up with a suitable story fast enough to fit that image and service. Still can’t. I know I should have a thicker skin, after a whole adult life in urban centers, and a career in media. I know I risk annoying some of my gay friends by drawing attention to it. I know I jeopardize my PC cred by letting the ad get under my skin.
But as I wrote to the executives who own and run the billboard company, Lamar Advertising:
“No matter what one's politics, religious beliefs, or moral compass says about this, does it not seem obvious that this ad is inappropriately placed when it becomes forced viewing for hundreds of children daily?”
Driving to school this morning, and TWO MORE billboards of the same ad have now gone up, all within approximately a mile of each other, of Valley View and South Weddington Park. So kids going to and from school on the West Cahuenga corridor now see that ad six times a day, five days a week. Thirty impressions per school week.
Two of the three Man Hunt Mobile billboards we see on our drive to school came down on Monday. Why, exactly, is not apparent, since my emails to three staff members of Councilman LaBonge, and three executives at Lamar, and my follow-up emails, were never acknowledged. My neighbor, a long-time resident and realtor, spoke to a couple of key people connected to the Neighborhood Council and LaBonge's office about the billboards too. Whatever the reason, they're gone!
And I'm zero feet away from a lot of gratitude.
EPILOGUE: As of Wednesday morning, some of the billboards are coming down. Kelly isn't sure it has anything to do with what she complained about, or the phone calls to Lamar in New Orleans, or the activists she was in touch with, but they are down for now. There's a bigger issue about the proliferation of billboards in the area, and also the content on it, but for now this issue showed that a mom's concern created some action.
What do you think? Answer in the poll!
Here's a follow-up:
Irene DeBlasio
12:52 pm on Wednesday, November 23, 2011
Offensive billboards should go -- but then you'll have a group of idiots who will defend their rights to be placed there. The network news now has more commercials for big pharma drugs than anything else. Still wondering about the two bathtubs at the end of the 'cialis' commercial -- what is that about?
Jessica Gottlieb
7:13 pm on Tuesday, November 29, 2011
Since I have a ten year old boy and I live in the neighborhood I'm an expert on this dilemma. Really!
I'm not a feminist and I'm not pro-sex but I have to say that the corridor she's talking about is positively littered with billboards that have T&A selling things. This is not the most offensive billboard, not by a long shot.
Here's what worries me about raising my ten year old son in Los Angeles:
1. I hope he will get a good education.
2. I hope he will be kind to others
3. I hope others will be kind to him
4. I worry that he will crack his head open... again.
5. I worry that there will be an earthquake
6. I worry that he won't love me as much as I love him.
7. I know that he won't love me as much as I love him.
8. I worry that his teachers won't see him as being articulate and interesting.
9. I worry that he will not develop good judgement.
10. I worry that the fundamentalists will make America awful for him.
#'s 10-764 are sort of the same
765. I worry that he'll see a billboard of two really hot guys almost kissing.
Andrew Wells
5:17 pm on Wednesday, November 23, 2011
Well, first of all, you can no longer call yourself a liberal feminist. "Church Lady" sounds a little more accurate. I can't help but shake the belief that if this was a man and a woman kissing you wouldn't have taken such a stance. Stop trying to mask your homophobia by mentioning you have "gay friends." This is L.A., lady, get over it and learn how to be parent and talk to your child if it's required. Seriously, you contacted the company? With all that is going on in the world and in this city, this is where you have decided to take your stand?
Miki Henderson
7:50 pm on Wednesday, November 23, 2011
OMG Ms Cole! I applaud you for fighting city hall...we shouldn't see this, nor should we see some gal doing the hootchy-kootchie and having to explain this, and yeah, I don't want to have to explain the two bathtubs in the cialis commercials either, or why that guy has a stupid grin in the viagra ads. There has to be some appropriateness.
Irene DeBlasio
8:03 pm on Wednesday, November 23, 2011
The 'Grinning Viagra Guy' just got his blue pills (probably in Vegas) -- I still don't get the two bathtubs though. What do they mean?
B
3:37 am on Saturday, November 26, 2011
The editor's note is a lame attempt to broaden a narrowly focused complaint. There is no mention of the ads for pot shops, stripper clubs and phone sex her son is subjected to on a daily basis wherever they go in LA, Its the theme- casual homosexual sex-that makes her uncomfortable, I hope she can protect her sons innocence in a way that shields him from her own fears and insecurities and doesn't obstruct other's right to freedom of speech and expression.
Mike Szymanski
3:40 am on Saturday, November 26, 2011
There are issues brewing of the strip club ads and the pot shop billboards near other elementary schools which is why those were brought up.
Sparky Sparkindarkness
11:08 am on Tuesday, November 29, 2011
But the two men kissing! the horror! they be abusing her poor innocent kiddies eyes! Clearly faaar more important!
I think mentioning the others serves the same purpose as her "I have gay friends" and the "I'm a gay-friendly liberal feminist" spiels - it's all part of the "I'm not a homophobe, but..." line
Joe Guadagni
3:53 pm on Monday, November 28, 2011
I don't understand how a picture of two people almost kissing constitutes a loss of innocence for your child. Do you never kiss your own husband or partner in front of your kid? Even if your kid asks about the billboard out of curiosity, what is there to explain anyway? "When two adults like each other, sometimes they kiss." There is no reason to explain what sex is, let alone that there is an app to make it easier for people to find casual partners. If your child insists on asking what the advertisement is for, just say it's for an iPhone app, but don't say what it is. Or just say you don't know. It's not very difficult for you to explain such an advertisement and it's certainly not a loss of innocence for your son.
This is part of being a parent. Explaining things to your children that either are too difficult or too adult for them to understand. There are advertisements about divorce lawyers, abortion alternatives, and HIV testing too. Those three things are arguably much more difficult to talk about than two people *almost* kissing. But no one ever complains about those.
John
11:54 am on Friday, December 2, 2011
Well said Joe.
BR
4:10 pm on Monday, November 28, 2011
So, because there are two men almost kissing on the billboard, you assume that they are just hooking up as opposed to two men who met using the website, dated, and are now in a relationship? That in itself is an interesting statement about your views of gay relationships. Hopefully you won't pass that along to your children, as it is just as harmful as many of the more blatant forms of homophobia.
Jim Wilkinson
5:07 pm on Monday, November 28, 2011
They're in a liplock? Time to break out the reading glasses, people. Their lips are NOT touching in this ad. Or how about the Michael Kors underwear billboard ad nearby this one that has the female with her hand down inside the front of the guy's shorts? I'm sure that's just OK, right?
Calling oneself a liberal feminist does not make one so. Get a grip.
Irene DeBlasio
5:42 pm on Monday, November 28, 2011
Why can't we just get rid of ALL billboards? They certainly don't enhance anybody's quality of life. They're a huge distraction and I doubt they create any incentive to buy or use a product or service. To me they're as welcome as a phone call from a telemarketer.
mikenola
8:18 pm on Monday, November 28, 2011
Two things Miss Cole...first your liberal feminists veneer is shattering. That lip service you give to "equality" is now exposed as a sham. If this was a straight couple you would not hesitate to quip that it is a dating site at the beach (to cover the bare chest thing) and if it was two women your pseudo "liberal feminist" machismo would have kicked into hyperdrive to explain it was natural. ....but it is two men and for some reason you need to come up with a way to "explain" to "9 year old who loves Army guys" what the billboard is about... how about it's a dating site at the beach...just like for straights?
How about " you know uncle bill and uncle joe like to kiss? well its a place for good men to find each other to data"? Your "gay friends" should be crucifying you at this point.
I for one did not like having the Christian Hate mongers control my Important Talking Points Agenda with my daughter, and I certainly was uncomfortable when one of her 4 year old friends said bluntly "my mommy says your daddies are evil and an abomination. She says you are all going to burn in hell so I can't play with you." so your discomfort have to explain a dating site for gay men, who you claim to support, is not even a blip on the radar of "problems" that so called Christians cause for gay parents. either get over yourself Ms. Cole or admit you are a hypocritical bigot. A liberal only if you don't have to feel uncomfortable with equal treatment of LGBT folk.
Camilla Baklayan
10:56 pm on Monday, November 28, 2011
One more thing, we also called another company for a billboard on Sunset and Cresent Hights and that billboard is now whited out, it was a Burberry advertisement, and the girl was not wearing anything, not even underwear! We even wrote the Burberry Company in the UK.
John
11:59 am on Friday, December 2, 2011
I happen to like naked bodies. Thanks a lot.
Joe Guadagni
7:06 am on Tuesday, November 29, 2011
To all those complaining that the billboards shouldn't be near schools... the company LAMAR has a policy that they should not be within 500 yards of a school or preschool. They strictly enforce this policy and do regular checks to see if the billboards comply or if a school has recently popped up. This particular billboard got moved because of that, and not because of any complaints from so-called liberal moms.
There is nothing offensive about this billboard. Please get over it. There is nothing to explain to your children either. I am sure they have seen you kiss your spouse, and so a picture of two people almost kissing should cause no confusion. How is the explanation "it's an advertisement for an app to help adults meet each other and date each other" really that hard? The article makes it sound like you need to be Shakespeare to somehow come up with a creative explanation that circumvents the truth to maintain the precious innocence of a 9-year-old boy. Get a grip.
Sparky Sparkindarkness
10:54 am on Tuesday, November 29, 2011
I see a billboard with 2 men who are not even touching leaning in for a kiss. They're not illegally unclothed (shirtlessness is not normally considered risquee for men).
So why is this so-called gay friendly mother having so much difficulty explaining that 2 men kiss to her son?
And I like how she invokes "casual sex" when nowhere in this billboard is that mentioned. But it's nice ivnoking of a homophobic dog whistle
Sparky Sparkindarkness
11:05 am on Tuesday, November 29, 2011
And your PC cred? thank you for belittling homophobia like that. And yes homophobia - hey son, 2 men kiss because they like each other, just like men and women kiss. Is that hard to explain to your son? if so, congratulations, you're a homophobe
Or does your 9 year old live in a world where he has never seen a kiss before? really?
You are objecting to two men kissing - who aren't even kissing. You are using talking points right from thje religious right to do so
Oh and do keep waving your "gay friends" around. I'm sure none of us have heard the "I have gay friends" line before. Let alone the "I'm not homophobic but..." lead in you have here,.
Gay friendly? Not to this gay you're not. At least with the religious righties they're honest about their prejudice
Phillip Perez
11:13 am on Tuesday, November 29, 2011
Q: "What's that mom?"
A: "It's a dating website for gay men."
I totally understand that it's a tacky ad (and I agree with that). However, there are an endless amount of tacky ads everywhere...
P
11:28 am on Tuesday, November 29, 2011
"I know some would tell me to use the opportunity for an illuminating conversation. But I don’t need Manhunt Mobile to set my Important Talks Agenda. Our family really could have gone awhile longer without that particular conversation—and should’ve been able to do so."
Bless. Your. Little. Heart. What are you going to say when your son's friend shows him a pornographic website? You don't want Billy the Neighbor setting your Important Talks Agenda? Or when a peer shows him drugs for the first time? You don't want Jack the Sixth Grader setting your Important Talks Agenda?
Life happens, lady. You want to shield your child? Move to rural America, home school him, and don't own a TV or computer. Let me know how that works out for you.
Kelly Cole
12:16 pm on Tuesday, November 29, 2011
Thanks to many of you for your thoughtful replies, both negative and positive. I thought long and hard before I wrote this piece because I knew the criticisms I would hear.
I'd like to address a few of the points made:
1. The 3 billboards in question were within a very close proximity of 3 elementary schools and 2 heavily used parks, on a stretch of street that my family can't avoid. 6 impressions a day, 30 impressions a week.
2. I don't believe anyone should be objectified or reduced to one element of their humanity in order to sell products. My piece was about one example of that, not all examples of it.
3. My son wanted explanations for the text in its relation to the image, not the image alone. "Why does that say man hunt with those two guys kissing? What does zero feet away have to do with it?" The two guys part of it was not what he was interested in.
4. My personal moral compass certainly comes into play. I don't care if my son grows into an adult who desires men or women. I do care that he becomes a teenager and an adult who acts on those desires with great respect, empathy and judiciousness toward himself and others.
5. Manhunt Mobile may have more uses than random hook-ups. But it's a stretch to say they are advertising anything but that with the ads in question.
While I believe in nurturing childhood AND adult liberties, I have a son who still believes in Santa. It's a delicate balance I feel is best tipped towards him on this one.
Sparky Sparkindarkness
12:21 pm on Tuesday, November 29, 2011
Where did you mention objectification in your article? All I see is "think of the children, the gays are corrupting my children!" rhetoric.
And the language? (despite the fact you clearly mentioned an imaginary lip-lock and "porn" style image) "it's about men who like men who want to meet". Again, why is this so complicated?
And I love how gay dating sites are all about the random hookups - yes of course, we'd never use them for anything else right?
And the delicate art of protecting children means ensuring gay images are treated with an entirely different standard from straight ones.
Lightnapper
12:56 pm on Tuesday, November 29, 2011
4 Absolute Truths-- Santa is a myth... gay couples exist...sex happens-- not always in the dark-- and the lying starts as soon as we are born and continues until we are dead. Unfortunately, many individuals call that parenting and others label it teaching. For some odd reason, Thomas Jefferson and his penchant for slave girls comes to mind...followed by Clinton's, "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" assertion. Great debate and commentary though-- really enjoyed it.
Bill Jones
3:00 pm on Tuesday, November 29, 2011
I live right off the Cahunega pass. I know this area quite well. Those billboards of naked women with their naked asses in the air are STILL hanging.
Yet a simple kiss between 2 people of the same gender is too much for a heterosexual?
Sorry, Kelly, this is blatant homophobia, and as a resident of this area, I intend to look further into this and even get the city involved if I must.
Blatant homophobia. Sickening.
Why not have an ounce of courage and just come out and say that you feel that heterosexuality is such a fragile state, that seeing a photo of the same gender kissing will turn your son gay and you'd hate that.
Because I know for a fact that this is what this is truly all about.
And so do you, Kelly.
Joe Guadagni
3:06 pm on Tuesday, November 29, 2011
I am still struggling to understand how you cannot adequately explain the ad to your son. It's a dating web site for gay men. The "zero feet away" means how far away someone is since the app lets you meet people in your neighborhood. "Man hunt" is the name of the web site.
Like, seriously, how hard is it to say that? You say that you want to tell your son the truth but that you don't know if you should because it might damage him or some nonsense. Guess what? What I just gave above as an explanation is the truth and in no way damages your son. Although the web site is used primarily for casual sex and hookups in the neighborhood, you do not have to explain that aspect to your son. There is no reason for it. If he continues to ask questions, then fine, you can explain to him that some adults like to have sex with anonymous partners. 99% chance that it will never come to that point. In a few years when he is more interested in sex, then sure, go ahead and voluntarily offer the explanation that it is for casual sex.
The main problem I see here really is you have a poor skill at explaining adult issues to your child. Your point #4 mentions that you want your son to have approach adult issues with respect. The only way that will ever happen is if you do not keep him in a bubble. If he asks something, tell him the truth. I've already shown you how easy it is in language appropriate for the age of your child.
patchy
12:13 pm on Wednesday, November 30, 2011
Completely agree. As one who also called Lamar... know that there are MANY who agree with you.
Irene DeBlasio
1:05 pm on Tuesday, November 29, 2011
Hello Sparky, Is that your nom de guerre? What are you afraid of? How about using your REAL name.
Sparky Sparkindarkness
1:19 pm on Tuesday, November 29, 2011
Homophobia mainly. Can get guys like me fired, y'know.
Ian Jensen
2:01 pm on Tuesday, November 29, 2011
"You try explaining the “Zero feet away MANHUNT MOBILE” phone application to your 9-year-old son." No... YOU explain it. It's your job. He is YOUR child. It's not the job of people around you to raise your child. You brought him into the world, so it's your responsibility to raise him. All this fuss because you don't want to have an uncomfortable conversation with your child? So what does that teach him?
1. Mom feels uncomfortable abut two men being intimate (aka homophobia--especially dangerous is your son is gay).
2. If he questions anything, Mom can't handle the "bad" feelings, so don't say anything (a sure fire way to make him feel ashamed because YOU can't handle his "bad" feelings).
Ian Jensen
2:02 pm on Tuesday, November 29, 2011
Doesn't seem like very good parenting to me. How about having an honest conversation with your son? Something like: "Honey, some boys like other boys, and this is how they meet each other." Gee, no mention of tantric sexual positions. Just a simple truth that a six year-old might understand. Maybe add: "And some boys like girls, and they can meet each other in similar ways."
This always makes me wonder why people have kids. Did situations like this not cross your mind? Did you make plans for it? Maybe read a book, ask a mental health professional their opinion? My guess is no. Instead, just get rid of the gays and their icky lifestyle.
Ian Jensen
2:02 pm on Tuesday, November 29, 2011
“No matter what one's politics, religious beliefs, or moral compass says about this, does it not seem obvious that this ad is inappropriately placed when it becomes forced viewing for hundreds of children daily?” Oh, really? Forced? It's just like the gays to force themselves on poor, unsuspecting straights! If you're really the "liberal, sex positive feminist" you say you are, then you would realize that you are simply perpetuating another evil fallacy about gay men. That we "force" our sexuality on the unwilling. That we "recruit" others into our shameful and dark exploits. Give me a break!
bob
2:58 pm on Tuesday, November 29, 2011
It's kind of like the house-collapsing cialis commercials that are on every channel several times an hour..
Joe Guadagni
3:15 pm on Tuesday, November 29, 2011
In all fairness, Ms. Cole did not write anything particularly homophobic. Her issue is that the ad is overtly sexual and about an overtly sexual product. She is having difficulty explaining the ad and the product to her son. I think it is wrong to continue to label her a homophobe or putting words in her mouth. She is not saying gays force themselves upon anyone, she is not saying that gays are wrong, she is not even saying that she is having difficulty explaining to her son what it means to be gay. She is simply stating that explaining the product itself is difficult and having the billboards supposedly too close to school intensifies that difficulty since her son sees the ad every day and may be prompted to continually ask questions about it.
Please before you label someone homophobic, check your own biases and read the person's words. Don't insert your own. I happen to be a gay man, but I did not find the article homophobic. Yes, there are some parents who probably object to it on the basis that it's two men, and on that basis alone. But I am not hearing about those parents. I'm hearing about Ms. Cole's experience. I also thought to myself "well, this would never happen if it were a man and a woman". But then I thought that it actually does. Also, there is no app similar to this for straight couples and so an ad for a product aimed at straight people has never come up. I checked my biases. Can you do the same please?
CA Patrick
3:43 pm on Tuesday, November 29, 2011
I'm not sure she's a homophobe, but Ms. Cole is definitely a sex-phobic nut who lacks any ability to be remotely self critical. I wish she and the other members of the uptight citizens brigade would ask themselves the same questions about lots of ads for things that I find much more offensive than this - firearms, religion and politics come to mind.
Listen up mommie bloggers: if you can't tell junior that there are adults out there who want to enjoy each others' company, that's your problem. Don't force your problem on the rest of us.
CA Patrick
3:47 pm on Tuesday, November 29, 2011
I just read this and thought I was going to barf:
"While I believe in nurturing childhood AND adult liberties, I have a son who still believes in Santa. It's a delicate balance I feel is best tipped towards him on this one."
Hey Kelly, you actually expect the rest of the world to bend in support your propensity to feed your demon spawn freakish fairy tales about bearded daddies who bring presents to children? Really?
You should quite while you're ahead. You're definitely up for face palm d'or prize on this post. And you've made a lot of otherwise perfectly nice Californians hate you.
D Z
4:12 pm on Tuesday, November 29, 2011
Kelly, please stop using your kid as a shield for your homophobic campaign to suppress free speech. These ads, as crude as they may be, are protected by the First Amendment. Where in the Constitution does it say that a kid as a right to believe in Santa Claus indefinitely? My parents (actual liberals, unlike you) raised me in SF's Castro, where this sort of advertisement can be found on nearly every storefront. I turned out just fine. If your son still believes in Santa, you've failed to do your job as a parent. Growing up is full of uncomfortable and awkward truths, but because you're too cowardly to honestly confront these truths with your son, you want to suppress everyone else's right to free speech. The youngest generation will face a set of economic, environmental, and population challenges greater than any other generation has ever faced before. Sheltering them excessively from the real world will only damage their ability to confront these problems when they grow up. Don't kid yourself - you're really much closer to a Christian fundamentalist than you are to a real feminist. You should just "come out" as a homophobe already.
Anne Larsen
5:17 pm on Tuesday, November 29, 2011
I never thought this would be me: A conservative homemaker complaining about a narcissistic liberal trampling on free speech and exhibiting homophobia. Like that would ever happen.
Well, it has and here it is. Because I’m also a single mom complaining about her child’s premature loss of innocence, caused by having to explain to my 8 year old daughter why some people's narcissim and homophobia is more important than free speech. Thanks a lot!
Joe Guadagni
5:24 pm on Tuesday, November 29, 2011
Still seem to be a lot of people labeling her a homophobe and not reading the actual article. I think the so-called liberals and non-biased people responding with such vitriol just see that some mom is upset over an ad with two guys almost kissing and automatically think she hates gays. Really? Come on.
Sparky Sparkindarkness
4:24 am on Wednesday, November 30, 2011
Someone who thinks 2 guys almost kissing is obscene and "robbing her child of their innocence" (which is right up there pushing the gays as predators meme) IS homophobic.
We never consider straight people kissing obscene. Fairy tales end with a straight kiss! Kissing is hardly ever considered inappaproptiate for children. And here they're not even kissing
A double standard, treating gay people as inherently more obscene than straight? I'd call that homophobic, certainly
King Taco
6:32 pm on Tuesday, November 29, 2011
Oh. My. God. Your life as a liberal feminst is SOO HARD. It must be difficult thinking about how difficult things are for you. And your little boy, oh the horror! Having to have two sweaty ga- I mean - "army" men in front of him! You might as well put him in a Ron Jeremy movie! I don't know HOW you've managed to be such an amazing mom until this point - I mean, your child still believes in Santa! Here's my solution:
1) Move to the country
2) Eliminate all forms of communication, both in and out.
3) Don't allow dictionaries in the house. They have potty language.
4) Keep telling your son that you're a liberal, he'll believe you.
5) Buy a camera, film yourself as a newscaster, and make up happy news.
6) Eat at Chik-fil-A a lot.
Bill
7:03 pm on Tuesday, November 29, 2011
Conservative moms (with dysfunctional views on sex) shouldn't be allowed on the internet, let alone blog about their day to day ignorance. If you want an audience for your morals and witch burning, set a play date with the rest of your kind.
Kent Goertzen
7:26 pm on Tuesday, November 29, 2011
"A liberal feminist complaining about a sex-positive, homosexual billboard."
Clearly you aren't what you claim. If it was a hetero couple on the billboard for the same type of app, you wouldn't be writing about it.
Text book closet homophobia.
LH
7:51 pm on Tuesday, November 29, 2011
It's interesting that in all the back and forth regarding the appropriateness of this image, we're forgetting that it's a commercial advertisement meant to profit Manhunt Mobile; it's not a piece of art or form of social/political expression.
Yes, businesses have a right to sell their service or product, but there needs to be standards to ensure that the message is responsible (i.e. not inauspiciously placed near schools to promote sex, alcohol, tobacco, etc.).
It seems to me that the gay community should be no more defensive of the right for this particular advertisement to be near a school yard than I should be of an ad for Mondavi Vineyards merely because I drink wine. It's not about attacking the subscribers of the content; it's about controlling the *mature* (not gay) messages that permeate the space around children.
Yes, sex-- er, 'almost kissing' as we're calling it-- is a normal part of life, but it should be at the parent's discretion how and when to broach that subject with their child - not Manhunt Mobile's discretion, and for God's sake, not the hyper-defensive "true liberals" who confuse commerce for a sacrosanct piece of social expression.
Sparky Sparkindarkness
4:23 am on Wednesday, November 30, 2011
Oh yeah straight people telling the gay community what we should and shouldn't be a part of
Almost kissing - that's what we're seeing. The attitude that us almost kissing is obscene is why we get bottles thrown at our heads for daring to hold hands in public, why we've been thrown of airplanes, out of hotels, off busses, our of coffee shops for daring to touch each other
Since when do we insulate children from kissing? Fairy tales contain kissing! Children's programmes contain kissing! A million adverts contain kissing. Ah but it's different when it's 2 men, right?
Joe Guadagni
11:42 am on Wednesday, November 30, 2011
... No, it's different when the image of two men almost kissing is used to market an app for anonymous and casual sex with partners in your immediate vicinity. That wasn't in any fairy tale as far as I remember.
Kent Goertzen
8:41 pm on Tuesday, November 29, 2011
LH, "but there needs to be standards to ensure that the message is responsible (i.e. not inauspiciously placed near schools to promote sex, alcohol, tobacco, etc.). "
Why do those standards always seem to only come up to suit anti-gay or conservative agendas?
And why is it we are so hyper sensitive to it here. Take a look at ads in Europe compared to here, and there is no comparison to the openness. And it has been that way for years and years.
They aren't having any issues with their children there.
Joy Akakala
9:16 pm on Tuesday, November 29, 2011
Hey Kelly!!
Simple solution.... move to Texas or Utah that way you won't have to explain anything to your kid - and he'll be free to beat and bully gay kids in school!.... Have the cake and eat it too.
PS: Are you really as moronic as you sound?
LH
9:31 pm on Tuesday, November 29, 2011
And Joy, do you expect anybody to take you seriously when you insinuate that Kelly would want her son to "beat and bully gay kids at school?" Way to thoughtfully contribute to what has so far been a rather intelligent debate among opinionated adults! Who's moronic?
LH
9:30 pm on Tuesday, November 29, 2011
I understand that gay individuals have been the victims of discrimination and social persecution and that is not right, but I really don't think the controversy over this billboard is an example of that kind of injustice. If this post were about the million pot shops on Ventura blvd., I would be just as vocal. And we all know local residents are very vocal about that issue, and according to an earlier respondent, also combatting 'straight' sexually-charged ads.
Yeah, I suppose some conservative agendas are against drugs, sex, AND gays, but I can assure you, I'm just against poor taste, and call me crazy, but I think ads *selling* sex in close proximity to schools is inappropriate.
Of course kids are going to learn about sex from various peers/influences, but does that mean we should give businesses the green light to push their ads under the nose of kids just because Europe does it? Yes, Europe is way more unabashed about sex, and their adverts are on a completely different level of candor, but this isn't Europe, it's America.
And, btw, Europe too has debates over the appropriateness of sexually explicit ads:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/2686538/EU-wants-to-ban-sexist-TV-commercials.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/french-in-uproar-over-oral-sex-antismoking-posters-1908559.html
Sparky Sparkindarkness
4:21 am on Wednesday, November 30, 2011
And are either of those ads even remotely comparable to this?
2 shirtless men leaning in for a kiss - not even kissing. If it was a man and a woman it wouldn't be considered obscene or robbing her children of their innocence. And clearly you don't understand what gay people face otherwise you'd realise that treating even the mildest form of gay affection as obscene is a major problem
Simon seymour
9:56 pm on Tuesday, November 29, 2011
This woman is homophobic.
Simon seymour
9:58 pm on Tuesday, November 29, 2011
http://gawker.com/5863564/mommy-bloggers-need-to-shut-up-about-this-dirty-gay-billboard
Sorry that raising your children is proving difficult for you, but culture doesn't need to stop for you. Pathetic.
Simon seymour
10:11 pm on Tuesday, November 29, 2011
When I was really little I heard the song "Let's Get Physical" by Olivia Newton John on the radio and asked my mother what it meant. She said "two people who like each other sometimes like to hold hands and things like that." I remember being a little confused and certainly not traumatized. But it successfully reduced a suggestive song to something innocent. If you don't have skills to relate an adult world to a child you should ask other parents how they handle living in a city like Los Angeles. If the fact that they are two men is part of what is troubling you, maybe you should think about your comfort level in a world where diversity is slowly being accepted (though we have a long way to go because of people like you.)
Rosemary
11:03 pm on Tuesday, November 29, 2011
"Because I’m also a single mom complaining about her child’s premature loss of innocence..."
Yet, because you choose to voice your lifestyle choices, I'm forced to explain to my child that some parents have children out of wedlock and that some parents can't stay married to each other. Now, there's a loss of innocence for you.
Joe Guadagni
11:39 am on Wednesday, November 30, 2011
That comment is completely inappropriate. The author argues that in order to drive her son to school she must pass by this advertisement, and so she cannot avoid her son seeing it. Not only can your child certainly avoid reading this article, but you can also prevent him from doing so *and* the article's intended audience does not even include your child.
Rosemary
4:10 pm on Wednesday, November 30, 2011
Not uncalled for in the least. The truth isn't always pretty. If we're going to talk about a "premature loss of innocence" then we might as well be honest about all things that affect "loss of innocence".
oDN
11:11 pm on Tuesday, November 29, 2011
i say move on, get a life and worry about real problems than two guys on a billboard- I've had to have your hetero agenda crammed down my throat for years and yet, somehow i grew up an active productive member of society
and i'm sure will as well
Julian
1:08 am on Wednesday, November 30, 2011
I'd like to donate a Manhunt account to Kelly because I'd like to stay as many feet away from this "concerned parent" as possible.
donnyboy
7:33 am on Wednesday, November 30, 2011
Ew, ickky!!! I have to explain BUTTSEX to my child!!! Give me a break. All you need to do is tell the kid that some boys like to date other boys, and the ad is for a place where they can meet each other. As for the dog tags, I think it's safe to explain that even though he's wearing dog tags he's not a real soldier, it's just pretend. You aren't nearly as open-minded as you think you are, lady.
Liz Lane
8:40 am on Wednesday, November 30, 2011
I'm a heterosexual woman who finds the author's comments to be both homophobic and heteronormative. The fact of the matter is she wasn't inspired to complain about any sexually graphic billboards that portrayed heterosexual couplings, she was inspired to complain about this billboard.
Joe Guadagni
9:10 am on Wednesday, November 30, 2011
Because *this* billboard is for a product that is used almost exclusively for finding anonymous casual sex partners within your neighborhood. There is no straight counterpart.
Holy shit, does no one actually read the article anymore?
Rosemary
9:43 am on Wednesday, November 30, 2011
Joe - Do you curse that way around kids? I find your foul language more damaging to kids than this billboard.
Nonetheless, you don't know what you are talking about. There are plenty of products used exclusively by heterosexuals to find casual sex partners. Heck, there's a national, well-known website that matches married men with single women looking for sex.
Joe Guadagni
11:14 am on Wednesday, November 30, 2011
Match.com, e-harmony, etc. are not comparable to ManHunt, Grindr, Jack'd, etc. The former is used for matching couples primarily interested in relationships and marriage. The latter is used for matching couples primarily interested in casual and anonymous sex.
Apps like Blendr, although they claim to be the Grindr for straights, really don't work for a variety of reasons. Most notably they really are all just sausage fests. Web sites that promote adultery and extramarital affairs are not really advertised on billboards. I personally have never seen one.
But that's not even the point. The author of the article saw a billboard for a product that is used for anonymous sex. The fact that it was for men was absolutely irrelevant to the article. The majority of people responding are labeling her a homophobe and reading too much into it and putting their own spin on it. This is the article:
1. There is an ad for a product that is used to find anonymous sex partners.
2. My son is apt to notice it because it contains an image of a man wearing dog tags and he likes Army, soldier, etc. characters.
3. My son asks me questions about I find difficult to answer because I don't know how to explain what the product is without confusing him or degrading his innocence.
I find her lack of skill of explaining what ManHunt is rather peculiar and an indication of a weak point of her parenting. She has made no homophobic claim. But many people are putting words in her mouth.
Rosemary
9:48 am on Wednesday, November 30, 2011
I dismissed her pious and sanctimonious rant when I read she was a single mother. Read the well-documented stats about kids raised by single mothers. Her status as a single mother poses a much greater potential danger (and one that's real) to her child than does the billboard or gay people in general.
Joe Guadagni
11:20 am on Wednesday, November 30, 2011
The author is making NO comments about how it is the *gay* men that are hurting her son. She is commenting that she finds it difficult to explain what a web site for anonymous sex is. She has to explain what "ManHunt" and "Zero Feet Away" mean. If she were to tell the absolute, unadulterated truth, it would certainly confuse her son. The fact that the product is for *gay* men is absolutely irrelevant.
Just there are so-called self-proclaimed liberals responding to this article that just read it as "OMG MOMMY DOESNT LIKE GAYS". But you're not actually reading the article. Very likely those saying such comments just see someone saying something negative about something related to gays and think they must vehemently defend gay rights. This has nothing to do with gay rights. Why isn't anyone saying she's racist because it shows two white men almost kissing?
The most you can say is that she has poor skills when it comes to explaining adult issues of a sexual nature to her son, specifically how to explain that some adults use web sites to find anonymous sex partners within their neighborhood. I happen to think that she is wrong in her concerns since I find it very easy to explain this advertisement to any child.
Seriously, how can you say she is homophobic or attacking gays? What specific line shows that she is homophobic? (And if you actually quote something directly from the article, make sure you interpret in context; anyone can quote mine.)
patchy
12:06 pm on Wednesday, November 30, 2011
As a mother of young children, I thank you for being the voice of reason in this discussion. In the home, parents have the option of using parental controls for the television and the computer. Could we have some parental controls outside the home by keeping ads that are sexual in nature away from parks, schools, and children?
For those who are denying that this billboard does not carry sexual overtones...of course it does! Would it have been so hard to put clothes on these guys? This photo was cropped from the original version of the ad with the guys wearing only barely-there g-strings. I suppose the defenders would still not object if they were completely naked.
Joe Guadagni
11:31 am on Wednesday, November 30, 2011
I can't stop posing about this because it infuriates me that so many people have such poor reading skills.
Many responders also take her offense at an ad with a gay couple as evidence of her lack of offense at similar ads with straight couples. But there is no evidence of that in this article *and* there is no evidence that ads for similar products aimed at straight people are advertised in roughly the same vicinity. Whether such products for straight people exist is irrelevant. In her vicinity there is an ad for a product that is used primarily for finding anonymous sex partners in the neighborhood. It just so happens to be one marketed towards gay men.
The author finds it difficult to explain to her son what such an app is used for, whether it is for gay or straight men. The most she says beyond that is that having such billboards near schools and playgrounds is irresponsible since it can be detrimental to children. And she is right. Without a parent or trusted adult to put such advertisements into context, a child will be left confused. This reasoning is part of why tobacco and alcohol advertisements are banned in such areas.
I want someone to respond that the author is racist too. She's clearly offended at the billboard because it shows two white men almost kissing. She thinks showing white people having relationships is detrimental to her children and that these images just promote the White agenda. She doesn't want white people telling her son how to live.
CA Patrick
2:03 am on Friday, December 2, 2011
Joe, I think you're the one with poor reading skills.
The author of this screed is upset because a billboard depicting two guys about to hook up is visible to her young son and she is afraid she'll have to answer questions about it. Further, she describes the billboard as responsible for her child's premature "loss of innocence."
Any reasonably competent reader can see this for what it is: a projection of the mother's discomfort with two guys hooking up onto her son.
Notice that the mother seems to have no problem with any of the other unavoidable visual stimuli on the way to school or around LA, much of which others can and do find offensive. I find explaining people living on the street far more uncomfortable than any conversation about the Manhunt ad. The ad seems awfully tame relative to the billboards with slogans against immigrants, the gang tags I see on public transport or the constant barrage of images that remind every little girl - and boy - that women are only valuable if they are thin, white and admired by men.
Of all the offensive things in any social environment, this mommy blogger zeros in on two bare chested gay guys about to hook up. If you can't grasp the meaning of this choice, then the person who has trouble reading is you.
Joanna
11:40 am on Wednesday, November 30, 2011
Joe, just because you've never witnessed a billboard by AshleyMadison or the like doesn't mean they don't exisit.
Joe Guadagni
11:52 am on Wednesday, November 30, 2011
I did not say they don't exist and their existence is irrelevant to the point of the article.
edit: Sorry, I said "they don't really appear in advertisements". That's actually ambiguous. What I meant by that was that advertisements for such products or web sites do not seem to be as widespread as other provocative ads or ones for ManHunt and similar products. I did admit that that is only my personal experience though. (I live in NYC though, which is why I thought the ad space here is probably indicative of what exists in other cities across the country.) But that specific comment has no effect on the validity of my argument.
Jim Peel
1:30 pm on Wednesday, November 30, 2011
How about a billboard of a hetero couple, naked, kissing on Santa Monica Boulevard? Ya think that would get some complaints from the Gay community?
Dillon Jones
7:50 pm on Wednesday, November 30, 2011
If I had kids, I wouldn't mind talking to them about how one of their classmates can have two daddies that love each other. But this billboard would force the sexuality aspect on them, and that's something I'd like to bring up when I feel they're old enough, not have it forced upon me. I'd have the same issue if one of those guys on the billboard was replaced with a sensual, half-naked female.
Not near schools... I mean, come on. Really?
CA Patrick
2:07 am on Friday, December 2, 2011
So I assume you would home school your children, correct? Otherwise, it seems that it will be a difficult battle getting the entire social world to conform to your expectations about what is and is not age appropriate for your children. All of this visual stimuli from the real world is, after all, being "forced upon" you, and you feel that having children entitles you to demand that others change.
Good luck with that.
Rosemary
10:31 pm on Wednesday, November 30, 2011
Why do you people live in an area that allows billboard advertising in the first place? In civilized areas we don't allow billboard advertising.
Pay Raise Hill Tin
10:04 am on Thursday, December 1, 2011
Honestly, I'd be more worried what kids do in private on their cell phones and computers. All kids seem to have these gadgets, no matter how young they are. A public billboard is not going to sully your child. (Take a look at all the pedophile crimes in the news lately. ALL involve PRIVACY and CELLPHONES.)
PM
11:20 am on Thursday, December 1, 2011
She is correct - this is not a gay dating site. It does not show two men having lunch. It shows two men about to have sex - please, people have to be idiots not to realize the site for what it is. The site has a right to exist, just as two men have a right to go find what ever they are looking for. But the billboards are offensive - I don't want to see either hetero or homo sexual couples about to have sex while driving my kids around. This is precisely why LA has become a pit. If we don't have some standard for our neighborhoods - and this includes everyone - then all of LA is going to become one large suburban ghetto.
CA Patrick
2:10 am on Friday, December 2, 2011
Excellent point. Lunch = good, wholesome and kid friendly. Sex = dangerous, uncomfortable and the collapse of civilization as we know it.
Also, billboards of guys about to hook up explain why "LA has become a pit" and you can move into any abandoned home or office anywhere in the Los Angeles area, since obviously everyone has moved out of this god-awful pit.
Phillip Perez
4:56 am on Friday, December 2, 2011
Actually, these mean most likely DID have lunch right after this shoot and NOT sex. Every time you lean in toward your husband or wife to kiss are you "about to have sex?" This shows two men doing what most would think is "almost kissing" - YOUR mind is the one leaping to them having sex.
This IS a gay dating site. Maybe dating to you is going out in your turtle neck to have soup, to others it's drinks and then sex, to others it's: whatever. Each person decides. Do you really think people on Match.com and eHarmony aren't hooking up for sex from those sites? If so, I can guarantee you that you're mistaken - I 100% know.
Phillip Perez
4:57 am on Friday, December 2, 2011
Ugh. mean = men.
Stanley
11:40 am on Thursday, December 1, 2011
I totally love the billboard,however, it shouldn't be near the school. Maybe it should be put at least three miles out of the school zone.
Joe Lazzerini
1:15 pm on Sunday, December 4, 2011
FREEDOM OF SPEECH!
Merlin
4:01 pm on Monday, December 5, 2011
My personal take, (not a qualified expert in other words.) Almost no one mentioned what I believe to be at the heart of the problem. Ms Cole has a problem with fear. Her reaction to the billboard has little to do with homophobia or gayness or even "poor parenting skills." Those things, if they are real, are responses to her fear. They are not the issue. Without the fear I am reading in her post, she would have no difficulty in giving the appropriate, and honest, answer to her child of any age. What that specific fear is that is driving her actions, is for her (or with a therapist) to determine and work through.
We all have fears, and they drive our actions. Like anger against gays, other religions, the use of recreational drugs, or the whole assault on sex from the evangelical christian right. Mostly, as Ms Cole does above, we hide from that fear by blaming others (the billboard company here) rather than admitting to our fear, what ever that fear is, and taking responsibility for our shortcomings.
In short, this is a case of saving face by justification. I.e. if I can show that they are wrong then I am OK. It is their fault, not mine.
DanglingParticiple
7:48 pm on Tuesday, February 28, 2012
Oh, no. What if your son sees the (now viral) picture of that gay Marine kissing his boyfriend after returning from defending your freedom and your son's freedom?
Rosemary
5:22 pm on Friday, May 4, 2012
Uh-oh. Gap has posted a billboard that shows two men inside one t-shirt. Somebody save the children.